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Interview with Saul Newman

A winner of this year鈥檚 Ig Nobels describes how he debunked claims about extreme ageing, his alternative career path as a surfer, and why the thermal tolerance of plants keeps him up at night

Published on
November 7, 2024
Last updated
November 7, 2024
Source: Saul Newman

Saul Newman, a senior research fellow at the University of Oxford and UCL, has published across a broad range of fields, including plant science, demography and climate change. His work debunking much existing research about extreme ageing won him an Ig聽Nobel Prize, which recognises scientific discoveries that 鈥渕ake people laugh, then think鈥.

Where and when were you born?
This sounds like you鈥檒l ask me my mother鈥檚 maiden name and my favourite bank next. I聽was born in Australia in the 1980s.

How has this shaped you?
I don鈥檛 have a counterfactual on that. Sign me up for that reincarnation thing, and I鈥檒l get back to you once I聽have a聽sample size greater than one.

What kind of undergraduate were you?
The oddbod, broke, working-class kind. I聽attended five different universities during my studies, but with my cash jobs and unemployment cheques, I聽got through in the end.

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What鈥檚 your most memorable moment at university?
Finishing.

If you weren鈥檛 an academic, what do you think you鈥檇 be doing?
Still being an unskilled labourer in the Australian bush, or joining my cousins on the coast and surfing all day.

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Your work has debunked 鈥榚xtreme ageing鈥. Where did the idea come from?
It came from a long and unfortunate acquaintance with ageing research. In聽2017, I聽debunked a paper that had accidentally used the wrong column in a life table, rounded off most of the data to zero, somehow log-transformed these zeros into ones, decided that a string of ones does聽not change much over time, and been published in聽Nature. If you use the correct column in the life table, the entire paper dissolves, yet it鈥檚 still there, unretracted. I聽came up with a theoretical reason that all extreme-age data will be non-random errors and decided to test that hypothesis by tracking down 80聽per cent of the 110+-year-olds in the world.

It sounds quite a simple idea 鈥 that there simply isn鈥檛 evidence to back up many of these claims. Why did it take so long for someone to look into this?
I think there has long been a toxic environment in ageing research. It appears to be systemic, and absurdities thrive in the cracks of this ugly environment. They even seem to have a near-indeterminate lifespan, because honest criticism is career kryptonite. Take, for example, my work showing that the birthdays of extreme-age record holders are often multiples of five and聽10: a聽phenomenon called 鈥渁ge聽heaping鈥. Checking for age聽heaping is the most basic check of demographic data quality possible聽鈥 a聽test taught to undergraduates. So why, after decades of work on these databases, was I聽the first to point out that extreme-age data failed such a basic test? Is there an answer to that question that does聽not involve research misconduct, systematic bullying or stupendous incompetence? If there is, I鈥檇 love to hear it. So far, it鈥檚 crickets.

What are the ramifications of this? Is this bad news for any technology billionaires trying to live forever?
The ramifications are much larger than some doomed vanity projects. These data are the empirical support for late-life mortality models and are used by the United Nations to project how many humans society has to plan and care for during the next 100 years. The repercussions of this are shocking. If our data and models of old-age survival are junk 鈥 and the absolute lack of answers emerging from the demographic community certainly suggests they are 鈥 these projections will be deeply flawed:聽how many hospitals we require, how many doctors we have to train, what level our insurance premiums are set at, and how much we need to save for retirement will all be based on bad data. The demographic community needs to stop ignoring the scale of such problems and re-examine all of our assumptions on human age measurement. The problem is far more serious than the deeply unserious moonshot projects of billionaires, fad diets or who gets bragging rights in the Guinness World Records.

Do you think the academic community should pay more attention to the Ig聽Nobels?
I think academics should pay more attention to the critical re-evaluation of past ideas, and the active need to combat hype and misinformation. I聽can see an incredible kind of cognitive game going on in academia at the moment, where people have kind of accepted the concept that 鈥渕ost research is false鈥 as a general concept, as there seem to have been no聽effective responses to such meta-analysis of our collective efforts. Academics are failing to acknowledge the hard realities of the follow-on question: which academic research is false in particular? The part of my Ig聽Nobel that I聽hope people pay attention to, in other fields and my own, is how strikingly rare my type of criticism has become. It聽seems that I聽am utterly alone here, in my field, in having the capacity to flag tragicomically bad science at large scales.聽The deeply flawed records in demography are emblematic of this failure. The original 鈥渂lue zone鈥 paper proposed that inbreeding was good for longevity. Yet who called that out as bad science in the past 20 years? It is one of the most popular ideas in demography, for decades, but who ever called this out? Nobody.

Is this what you would like to be remembered for?
No, I want to be remembered for ending AIDS and climate change, before sticky-taping some dictators to the outside of a pre-launch space mission that discovers life on Europa. It鈥檚 not going to happen, but I聽can dream.

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patrick.jack@timeshighereducation.com

CV

2007-09鈥侭Sc in biological anthropology, Australian National University
2010-15鈥侾hD in medical science, ANU
2015-18鈥侾ostdoctoral fellow in plant science, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation
2018-21鈥係enior postdoctoral fellow in human ageing and genomics, ANU
2021-24鈥俁esearch associate, Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Research, University of Oxford
2023-present鈥係enior research fellow, Oxford Institute for Population Ageing, Oxford
2024-present鈥係enior research fellow in applied statistics and data science, UCL
2024鈥侷g Nobel Laureate in Demography


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